tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post1440047459657697381..comments2024-03-27T11:21:40.742+04:00Comments on Muscat Confidential: New book about Zanzibar's Princess Salme and another business ideaUndercover Dragonhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/10577931944980469254noreply@blogger.comBlogger38125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-59697073330097397142012-03-26T23:10:12.595+04:002012-03-26T23:10:12.595+04:00You are so wrong. Not all used slaves. Some of tho...You are so wrong. Not all used slaves. Some of those whites were the slaves. READ A BOOK!Mainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-76871275610709763322012-03-26T22:58:13.908+04:002012-03-26T22:58:13.908+04:00Hey dumb ass, they do provide you with easy access...Hey dumb ass, they do provide you with easy access bars, pork outlets and "massage" parlors (not legal but still around).Mainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-32455922009078771472012-03-26T22:52:49.474+04:002012-03-26T22:52:49.474+04:00Like children we are. You did this.. Oh yeah well ...Like children we are. You did this.. Oh yeah well you did that! Back and forth and not one willing to give an inch.Mainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-85494041629213329392012-03-26T22:51:22.973+04:002012-03-26T22:51:22.973+04:00I would like to say to you ANON and Ipsy, that I t...I would like to say to you ANON and Ipsy, that I think your comments are quite one-sided. I have heard loads of expats here complain because Oman Air even THOUGHT about not serving alcohol on it's flights, the lack of good sausages and on, and on, and on. This whole article is about how Omani's should open their eyes to the rest of the world. Complain, complain, complain, but let ONE Arab or Muslim complain about our countries and we all start talking about how they should grow up and just live with it. Have you ever seen the expat ladies with their breast all over the place, short skirts and arms exposed? Or how about the young expat girl and her boyfriend sharing a kiss on a local beach? How many unmarried couples here do you know? Did you also know it is ILLEGAL to live together, but still they do it? So your crap argument of when in Rome, is just nonsense. In Dubai we are known as Sexpats! How proud we should all be. When in Rome...Oh brother!Mainoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-35274113843887993682012-02-13T23:14:43.075+04:002012-02-13T23:14:43.075+04:00I am currently reading the book, and the author sp...I am currently reading the book, and the author spends a long, long time talking about slavery and the role of Omanis in it, and Arabs in general. A real eye-opener. Well, well worth reading. Until Omanis come to terms with all of this, I fear we will never treat others with the dignity and respect they innately deserve.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-20368041714807392632010-08-27T16:07:06.972+04:002010-08-27T16:07:06.972+04:00With regard to the comments of Ms Baasleim form Du...With regard to the comments of Ms Baasleim form Dubai about water, prayer facilities and halal eateries in Western European countries.<br /><br />My advice to you would be as follows:<br /><br />a) "The fun of shopping and visiting too was hugely taken out of our visit in our frantic searches for a mosque": If you expect that everything works similar to your home country, then travel only to countries which are similar to your home country. For instance: Go to Iran or Turkey. These countries do have a lot of interesting places and they offer you at least the required prayer facilities and halal eateries. Europe is not as traditional and as religious as the Gulf region. So: Do not go to countries which are totally different to Dubai, i. e. Western Europe!<br /><br />b) Up to my (certainly incomplete) knowledge, you can reduce the number of prayers if you on a journey. Use this possibility!<br /><br />c) "No water in the lavatories": Only a few decades ago, Dubai has not had any flush lavatories. Even nowadays most of the city is not connected to a central sanitary wastewater canalisation. Ask your grandparents (or parents?) how they coped with these circumstances when they had lived in mud huts or had ridden on camels through the desert.<br /><br />d) "Carrying a large cup in my handbag": Moist toilet tissues will do the same job. You can buy it in any super market.<br /><br />e) "Even being a herbivore was tough enough as we searched for eateries that did not serve pork and alcohol.": Do not expect that the whole system in Europe will change, only because of you. Most of the Europeans like eating pork. In our eyes, there is nothing wrong with it. If you do not like it: See my advice a)<br /><br />Greetings form EuropeAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-38540351660656381192010-07-12T14:30:06.022+04:002010-07-12T14:30:06.022+04:00Ooops, UD, I posted the last comment too soon! Era...Ooops, UD, I posted the last comment too soon! Erase it or reject it.<br /><br />OMR: I know my own family history up to Saladin and the crusades in Philistine very well. I am as white as you can get and no one in my family ever owned or traded in slaves. Not one. Some "white people" had nothing to do with the slavetrade. I know a friend 'who is white', whose Great Grandfather actually WAS a slave. Sooooooo, as usual, your generalizations annoy the keck out of EVERYBODY involved in the convo.<br /><br />I am rooting for you to one day surprise us; make a point we never thought of from a different perspective, wholly ungeneralized that doesn't smack of something less than what I hold as the general decency and education possessed by all my Omani aquaintances.<br /><br />BTW, I want an Omani passport so you can stop telling all the expats who disagree with you to go home because they get paid so well here ect...<br /><br />I will be a slave to Oman (at a minimal crummy salary worse than what I made at my first job in the West or even none if you give me all my Islamic slave rights lol) because I love Oman, the people, the country, the culture, the history. I don't try to "white wash it" though lol.Omani Princess (not Omani...yet)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11738377563210269837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-18068794124187532682010-07-12T14:16:59.250+04:002010-07-12T14:16:59.250+04:00To the one that asked, provisions for the allowanc...To the one that asked, provisions for the allowance of slavery are a part of Islam and are in the Holy Qu'ran. Any Muslim who says different is either lying or ignorant.<br /><br />To UD, sorry for hijacking your post, but this was one areas of my Islamic studies, along with polygamy, inheritance laws concerning women in the Shariah, adultery and fornication and the difference there in, and hijab [things COMMONLY misnuderstood or marginalized to hype points in the West].<br /><br />Slavehood as a state in Islam is different than slavehood as practiced by Europe. <br /><br />Number one difference in Islam, the slave was acknowledged to own their own soul up to the point they go to Allah SWT. The slave had the freedom of worship in their faith (Islam or no). They did not have to convert to Islam or die. They also had the right to food, clothing, and bodily protection. They had the right refuse sex with their 'owners' (those the Prophet Mohamed entrusted the care of slaves to) and the owners were told not to force themselves on the slavewomen who wanted to be pure and could not be forced into being prostitutes to make money for those responsible for their welfare. The Muslim keeper of a slave could not "sell" a slave but could let someone else buy the freedom of the slave in the form of paying the marriage maher for the slave. It is actually very extensive, the rights of the slaves. <br /><br />In Islam there are two cases for slavery, one, slaves that were already in existance through what we now consider the barbaric practice of slavery (that is, for profit), and these slaves' owners were encouraged in Islam to free them. The other case is when the Muslims took prisoners after fighting those who tried to kill them early in Islam (the Quraysh, and some Jewish tribes in what is now Al Madinah surrounding.) Often, those with families were ransomed back, but those whose families were killed in the fighting were taken as captives and the Prophet Mohamed SAW determined then who would be responsible for them. The Quran clearly states that only the Prophet Mohamed was given the right to distribute captives in this manner and so, this cannot be done in the present day. No new slaves were allowed to be taken as captives per force as only the Prophet Mohamed could guide people in this matter. And no Muslims can take loans with riba (lol, yes, I know, when all Omanis pretty much have riba based bank loans) and so they cannot fall into debt where they could become a slave to pay off their debt. And so, the only form of new slaves that could come to be in Islam were those whose parents were slaves who were never freed. Though ISLAM does encourage freeing slaves if you own those born into slavery.<br /><br />The only other case of slavery that could be applied to Oman OMR is that of slaves existing before the advent of Islam (meaning, you owned slaves before Islam came and encouraged you to free them). Even this IS debateable, thus Sultan Qaboos decided to free them. Which is a wholly Islamic thing to do so, and, ALHAMDULILAH.<br /><br />The kind of slavery practiced by Oman IN ZANZIBAR (I am not talking about here in Oman) wasn't the kind the Qu'ran makes provisions for. Allah SWT and the Prophet Mohamed SAW were not into the sale of human beings for profit.<br /><br />And for any "Muslim" fool that decides to call someone "abd" remember, the first martyrs in Islam were the slaves that converted to Islam and then their masters in the Quraysh tortured them. Remember Sumaiya. Remember Zayed. Go learn your Islam. It isn't okay to call anyone a slave to make yourself feel like your better. <br /><br />For those who overhear such an idiot in Oman, remind them that the Prophet Mohamed was proud to be referred to as a slave, a slave to Allah. The best name for a man, he said, was Abdullah. Abd (meaning slave). I love history and culture but not ignorance therein, using the past as an excuse.<br /><br />Great UD, alot of Omanis don't know about this.Omani Princess (not Omani...yet)https://www.blogger.com/profile/11738377563210269837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-58727787851349769562010-07-10T08:28:43.013+04:002010-07-10T08:28:43.013+04:00Mohammed Al-Tamimi
There is a world of difference...Mohammed Al-Tamimi<br /><br />There is a world of difference beween labourours and slaves, and trivialising it like this is why the country need to start to educate people and allow open debates about it.Karimhttp://www.karim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-27576674969007992322010-07-06T23:11:20.857+04:002010-07-06T23:11:20.857+04:00slaves in the Gulf ? fantastic topic. Can you tell...slaves in the Gulf ? fantastic topic. Can you tell me since you seem to 'know' quite a bit on Oman. How does one go about reporting an employer for non payment of salaries, illegal employees, and poor working conditions. This is a serious question. <br /><br />I feel 'all lost' in the Ministry web site. <br /><br />shokranAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-77255557910742630742010-07-04T14:57:00.929+04:002010-07-04T14:57:00.929+04:00That What I,
If you mean on official level, I agre...That What I,<br />If you mean on official level, I agree with you but make no mistake that its common knowledge in Oman that we were trading with slaves. Small ride into villages of Batinah region or Sur will put this discussion to rest. <br /><br />Regards,<br />Al-mamariAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-74592994534449625392010-07-04T09:15:02.786+04:002010-07-04T09:15:02.786+04:00The couple that went to Europe - simply shouldn...The couple that went to Europe - simply shouldn't have gone... like didn't they research the culture outside of their own? They are typical ethnocentrics yet expect others to visit their own country to be cultural relativists - WAKE UP! - Can't have it both ways!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-72097184033774765642010-07-04T09:12:12.992+04:002010-07-04T09:12:12.992+04:00I guess I agree with Karim, denying is our big pro...I guess I agree with Karim, denying is our big problem in fact not only regarding this issue..... I have a lot to say but i'm too lazy to write right now hehehe :p...<br />Gr8 post thanx.......AmasE°♥https://www.blogger.com/profile/10192870921090158698noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-4508152681014448722010-07-04T08:03:11.386+04:002010-07-04T08:03:11.386+04:00Wow!
How did i miss this one, too much stuff to ...Wow! <br /><br />How did i miss this one, too much stuff to process online!<br /><br />It don't matter i will offer comments on all what i have skimmed above, lots of redundancies in terms of arguments and comments in response to even more comments i think its cute.<br /><br />I'm going to reflect on a few things right here, oyaya its bloody 7:30 in the morning! no matter.<br /><br />Regards to Halal Holidays many practioners of the hospitality industry have been advocating what we call 'Sharia' complient hotels. i.e. hotels that DONT serve booze etct - I think the Safeer Franchise has witnessed much success to this reason please correct me if I am wrong.<br /><br />I am also aware of a few DXB (Dubai) hospitality establishments that have followed suit in the recent years.<br /><br />Now to our darling princesses whos book created much fury in Oman's internet in the last few weeks, like all historic figures i think she needs to be celebrated, maybe a movie - got some news on that one but i leave it for another time.<br /><br />On the whole Slavery and who started it first biz thats going up in the other comments above.<br /><br />Here is my take on the issue, Yes there is a form of denial in the country about much of our East African history ( why such denial, ah immerese yourself truly in a country and u might just understand why ]<br /><br />Narrowing the history on Zanzibar only is not a good idea, because Oman's history is all over East Africa.<br /><br />Now Slavery was and is, and will always be a fact of life, whether through visas, or through slave hunters, or whatever its an evolutionary process that man kind underwent and today is labeled as LABOUR. so people get over it.<br /><br />But i do have more thoughts - Anonymous mentioned that it is part of Islam 'Slavery' obviously another lost soul with much preconciveved notions, but I can understand that it happens lake of proper research b4 stating opinions occurs all the time, heck i might be a victim of that myself in this post.<br /><br />I would like to state a fact the difference between East and West Africa today is very obvious??? oh no i guess it isn't but this is how i see it no one language connects WEST AFRICA, but ONE language today unites East Africa, making swahili the widest spoken language in Africa. This also happend in South East Asian a lingo known as Malay or Bahasa Indo (spoken in Malaysian, Singapore, Brunei, and Indonesia.<br /><br />Such languages only come about when there is understanding - I hear not of a language depraived from English manifesting to something entirely new? is there?<br /><br />Can't be bothered to go on...Mohammed Al Tamamihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16168287018007595165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-39786391572391358972010-07-03T16:08:41.691+04:002010-07-03T16:08:41.691+04:00Omr
No one here said that European weren’t involv...Omr<br /><br />No one here said that European weren’t involved in slavery, they were, but they “government, academia and general public” have shown repentance, and are actively debating the issue of discrimination in their society, we on the other hand are:-<br /><br />1- Denying our role in slavery (let us avoid getting into size and numbers)<br />2- Denying that there is a social system of discrimination against blacks in our society<br /><br />Those problems will not solve themselves, an open and honest debate must be put in place, and this is why we call for better education of Oman’s history, both good and bad.Karimhttp://www.karim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-14584335855069743302010-07-03T10:38:13.950+04:002010-07-03T10:38:13.950+04:00omr - here is a repeat of what I wrote earlier as ...omr - here is a repeat of what I wrote earlier as you seemed not to have read it<br />Thats What I said<br />"And assuming that all black people were slaves; where as they could be the slave traders" <br /><br />Color is no indication of background, power, lifestyle; I am fully aware that having arrived into east africa, Arab men married into the black population (as an example Sulaiman bin Sulaiman bin Mudhafar Al-Nabhani who arrived from Oman, married the ruler of Pate’s daughter and became ruler himself http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rulers_of_Pate). <br />I know you will prove other examples.<br /> <br />But omr why do you assume that all white people owned slaves <br />Omr "I said white folks because all used slaves”. <br />You also say “that we didnt do it alone, and we just played a small part compared to you white folks” <br />Estimates of Arab slave trading is up to 18million slaves taken from east Africa by Arabs dosnt seem small to me but you seem to think it is <br />There were no white folks involved in slave trading from Africa to Arabia. Yet with out them there was a slave rebellion under the Abbasid rulers 1400years ago. How did the Zanj slaves get into Iraq? It will be interesting to hear you say how the court in Bagdad was managed by the white folks. <br />Here is another site for you to read to give a French view point of Arab slave trade http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traite_musulmaneThats What I Saidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12799337685584108553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-83171130642978511642010-07-03T07:24:45.209+04:002010-07-03T07:24:45.209+04:00I said white folks because all used slaves.
@thats...I said white folks because all used slaves.<br />@thats what, do you know that most of those black you talk about are from some of the biggest families here in Oman like th Busaidi family. So you are saying that all black people from Europe originaly slaves? No wonder you treat the blacks as slaves back home.omrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-65897575426109853632010-07-02T23:42:42.496+04:002010-07-02T23:42:42.496+04:00al mamary – the west is quite aware of its own sla...al mamary – the west is quite aware of its own slaving past ; many universities discuss it . Is it discussed in Oman; at all? <br />In Britain <br />UCL http://www.ucl.ac.uk/lbs/ <br />Oxford http://www.bodley.ox.ac.uk/dept/scwmss/projects/abolition/ <br />You may or may not agree with the point of view of the lecturer but the students are able to learn and discuss.<br />In USA<br />Yale http://guides.library.yale.edu/content.php?pid=66696&sid=580292 <br />Harvard http://dash.harvard.edu/handle/1/3710252<br />As does the government<br />UK<br />http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/slavery/DG_065902<br />US<br />http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/snhtml/<br />the British site especially shows what a deadly trade it was<br /><br />Omr takes the view point that it wasn’t really our (his/Omans/Arabs) fault , we didn’t use slaves, we were only middle men, that it was only the wicked Europeans who used slaves . <br />All he has to do is open his eyes at black people in Oman , listen to what they are called, even ask them how their parents/grandparents came to OmanThats What I Saidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12799337685584108553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-66234817292133643532010-07-02T23:02:15.861+04:002010-07-02T23:02:15.861+04:00omr said
"It was the local chiefs who caught...omr said <br />"It was the local chiefs who caught slaves and the Europeans enslaved them in their estates. we were just the middle men."<br /><br />where are the Europeans here ?<br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zanj_Rebellion ?<br />or here<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilal_ibn_Rabah_al-Habashi<br /><br />where are the European estates in Oman to have used these slaves<br /><br />http://dhofarigucci.blogspot.com/2010/05/slaves-in-dhofar.html<br /><br />so omr is implying that as 'middle men' it wasn’t really their fault?<br /><br />Here is a different point of view<br /><br />http://www.theeastafrican.co.ke/magazine/-/434746/653416/-/15kmfqnz/-/<br />a Gambian web site has an interesting first paragraph <br />http://www.accessgambia.com/information/east-africa-sahara-slavery.html<br /><br />and webs site talking about a specific trader<br />http://www.ntz.info/gen/n00880.html<br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tippu_Tip<br />aka Hamad bin Moḥammad bin Jumah bin Rajab bin Moḥammad bin Said al-Murghabī <br />who apparently had 10,000 slaves himself (not possible as his name dosnt sound very European ) <br /><br />read a Muslims point of view here<br />http://www.blackpast.com/?q=perspectives/islam-and-african-diaspora-indian-ocean-worldThats What I Saidhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12799337685584108553noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-13389595155542249672010-07-02T19:08:19.162+04:002010-07-02T19:08:19.162+04:00Dear Omr and al mamari,
a) white folks are many an...Dear Omr and al mamari,<br />a) white folks are many and different breeds... Actually too many to put them in one bag. You would not like it if one said about Omani women something that characterized other Arabs (such as Morrocans for example) So, think twice...<br />b) "... the supreme race" thing was a German invention and not a European or white one... Read history<br />c) Slaves are STILL found today in bilad and Sharqyia (I have heard the stories AND seen them myself) but they are servants (3abd/3abeed and bayasra who got their names only after they were freed)<br />d)Europeans reached the apologies stage through a VERY painful process of self criticism, discussions and debates that ended with something called the UNESCO Chart of Human Rights... Google it, read it and see HOW far we are in Oman today from that... Other countries are far too, BUT they acknowledge AND try to improve<br />e) Before you attack the wazungu in fora like these, try to understand something extremely important.... WE LOVE OMAN. The reason why we criticize is because we know the potential that Oman and its people has and we get frustrated not to see it materialize!<br />Salaam brothers!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-27393115875702594142010-07-02T14:27:48.931+04:002010-07-02T14:27:48.931+04:00As a secular couple, our first holiday to the Gulf...As a secular couple, our first holiday to the Gulf could have been a lot more pleasant and enjoyable had it not been for the lack of some very basic services like easy to access bars, legal massage parlours and pork outlets. Ummmm.....how ridiculous is that? About the same as the idiot couple in the article. Get a guide book and remove the chip from your shoulder next time you hit Europe.Hazchemnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-87692407124918690912010-07-01T22:27:42.577+04:002010-07-01T22:27:42.577+04:00i said that we did take part in the slave trade an...i said that we did take part in the slave trade and i even mentioned that my GF was a slave trader so what denial are you talking about? What im trying to say is that we didnt do it alone, and we just played a small part compared to you white folks. You guys loved slaves and built your nations on slavery income. It was the local chiefs who caught slaves and the europeans enslaved them in their estates. we were just the middle men. If we start putting links of all the crap your goverment did then this topic wont end. <br />European must do more than just apologize which i doubt they did.omrnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-33435816782368661132010-07-01T11:23:56.442+04:002010-07-01T11:23:56.442+04:00UD,
One must not forget that the invention of Ste...UD,<br /><br />One must not forget that the invention of Steam engine is the main reason of British and Europeans becoming less dependent on slave trade and led to it eventually being banned. It is not what some might think as “Human rights progress " "education and beautiful advance of European race " and evidence that Europeans fucked up in ww2 on sole idea of " supreme race " shit they being feeding themselves on for centuries. And again this resource exploitation is showing in Iraq, Afghanistan...ect so I think the west have nothing to lecture Muslims and Arabs about in this sad chapter of human history.<br /><br />Al-mamariAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-27963191829587020412010-07-01T09:07:07.549+04:002010-07-01T09:07:07.549+04:00UD
Kudos to a very good article, thanks for bring...UD<br /><br />Kudos to a very good article, thanks for bringing this to the fore.<br /><br />Oman, government, media and population, are still in deep denial to Omans` role in the slave trade, and it was a huge role, Omr above just highlights the level of denial the Omani society is having.<br /><br />I do agree to your call to bring Oman slave history to the general masses in the education curriculum, as well as open debate and discussions about it in the media, but this will not happen until the government wakes up from its denial.Karimhttp://www.karim.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-6283845125208268798.post-43523628449531843852010-07-01T03:13:03.600+04:002010-07-01T03:13:03.600+04:00I spent the whole night long, just to exfoliate of...I spent the whole night long, just to exfoliate of what is the main<br />secrete of " Slavery Trading voyage within the time of Oman and Britain on the old days<br />, and the main object behind the reason of abolishing the system at the<br />right time . Muscat Confidential Thank you for the integrating Journey " I think i got the real message behind t...he article "Maryam Al Alawihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05834338002049215368noreply@blogger.com